Clanbob! stop what you are doing!

[Skittles]

[Skittles]

[Despanan]

Well, considering Obama can have you killed without trial so long as he's "super-sure" you're a terrorist, and HSBC can knowingly launder billions in drug money for Mexican cartels and face no consequences whatsoever, I'm pretty sure Justice is over in America.

[Emoore]

[Phantomgrift]

Desp, I love your hyberbole.

You cannot draw correlations between "Violent altercation between two citizens" and "Drone strikes authorized against guys who want nothing more than to see large chunks of the United States population dead."

That and assassination of enemies of the United States has gone on since the time of George Washington. Why are you just know trying to get your knickers in a twist about it? And to wildly leap from that to banks supposedly laundering money for Mexican Cartels?

When do you start breaking out the tales of the silent-running helicopters, the shadow government behind the government and the Shape-Shifting Reptoid Lizard Men?

[dexeron]

We should be against the assassination of American citizens anyway, and I've got my reservations about assassination as a general practice beyond that, but what's most frustrating is further removing the event from its commission. Holding a knife is different than pulling a trigger, is different than loading a shell, is different than turning a key, is different than clicking a button on a joystick. When we distance ourselves from the commission of actions, we run the risk of not noticing when we cross over a line. I'm not even going to try to argue here that we have crossed any lines, but dude, seriously. Much as you like to defend the drones, you're going to tell me that the blasé way in which we shrug about assassination of American citizens, without trial and without due process, and without regard to collateral damage, doesn't make you a least a little troubled? Is there no room for nuance between: "KILL THEM ALL THEY ARE ALL ENEMIES THE INNOCENT HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR" and "MAKE LOVE NOT WAR"?

And again:

http://boingboing.net/2012/03/14/tom-th ... ng-bug-131

[Skittles]

Emoore, thank you for responding in a fashion much more level-headed than my own. It seems my posting habits are somewhat polarized at 4 in the morning (shocking, I know). I guess since I was able to review your comments alongside the video, it seemed somewhat obvious to me that the man had already been exonerated by the police by the time the interview took place. And you're right in saying that anyone would be remiss to not fully consider all options when forming an opinion concerning a homicide. Also, yeah, Bats probably wouldn't be too warmly welcome in our society, which is why I worked down from him, though the note I ended that list on isn't exactly elegant either.

[Phantomgrift]

Dex, I cannot begin to describe how tragically incorrect you are in your last post.
I would, however, like to direct your attention to one of the most profound books I've ever read about warfare and it's psychological ramifications on soldiers. It was written by retired Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman and is called "On Killing: The Psychological Cost Of Learning To Kill In War And Society."

Trust me, I do not "shrug" at the implications of drones. However, per the nature of my job, I take for granted the massive amounts of paperwork, regulations and red-tape it takes to so much as report on American soil, much less order the death of a American Citizen for crimes against his nation. It's part of the Intel doctrine referred to as Intel Oversight and is drilled into our heads from day one. It is not a decision lightly made, nor as casual as one might think.

My job is as a Strike Analyst. It is literally part of my job to designate a target and then tell a pilot to go blow it up, regardless of who or what may be near said target. This is not something the Navy takes lightly.

Something to consider on the other end of the drone spectrum though? We routinely get publications outlining everything that can go wrong with a basic flight profile, much less a strike mission against a target. (I've been squadron-associated for more than 2/3rds of my career.) A cockpit is a high stress environment with pilots dealing with a number of variables at once. This leads to fatigue, miscues, etc.
The drone provides a way of dealing with combat on a front that does not risk a multi-million dollar aircraft, a highly trained pilot and the millions of dollars it takes to train him... More so if he or she is shot down and requires a expensive and risky extraction.

That, and as a member of the military, the amount of crap we have to cut through just to conduct training exercises on American soil is a pain in the ass. Much less the notion that the civilians hold that we'll somehow just start randomly blowing up citizens left and right.

Read "The Man Without A Country" as well. Al Zwaquari turned his back on the country that raised him and basically renounced his American citizen when he took up permanent residence in the Middle East and begin to preach the death of America to a select group of people that not only took him seriously, but are actively engaged in trying to fulfill those desires.

[dexeron]

The only "Man Without a Country" I know of is that old pro-union propoganda story from the 1860s. ;)

[Phantomgrift]

I was looking at the book more from the perspective of the individuals journal entries later wherein he questions his new life without a homeland to support him. The manner in which he cut himself off, etc.

Not quite an application in the event of a terroristic traitor, but one has to make some fairly heavy-handed choices in order to completely turn against the nation that originally took you in.