Bradley Manning: Not Guilty

[Phantomgrift]

Taliban, Al Qaeda, Insurgents, same difference.
Bad guys, enemies of good people everywhere, etc.

More stuff for you to ignore Desp. I mean, you like highlighting the "poor innocent dirt farmer" type of thing, and are quick to hop on the "AND KIDS!".

I like the bias article there. Manning is not a "courageous whistle-blower". He's a little shit who couldn't take the stress of his situation and went with a knee-jerk reaction instead of taking the time to seek legitimate help. What he released had nothing to do with the context of his job, at all.

It would be akin to you, in your loose role of "playwright", deciding that you were bored and you were going to walk over to the bank down the street, then realizing that OMG!, you had to tell the world about the horrors that you found there. And all while you were supposed to be working on a deadline to finish your latest masterpiece.

Manning released documents that didn't "prove" anything, no matter what the dubious conspiracy theorist online might claim. He did severely embarrass and weaken American diplomatic ties with other countries, and revealed critical information about American sympathizers living in the Middle East, placing them at high risk for retaliation by extremists. But fuck it, his feelings were low and he needed an outlet, so why worry about long-term consequences. Your generation followed the "What's in it for me/Just Do It" generation of the 80's, so long-term consequences aren't something you particularly like to worry about.

You're right. We should have bilateral compensation for everyone ever harmed by war.
Fuck it, let's go and personally apologize to every civilian family member left alive of those who died in the Dresden bombings. Then we'll start payments to the families killed during Vietnam, and the French and English can make reparations to each other for their hundreds of years of warfare, and the British can cough up for that whole Colonialism thing with Africa. We can all play nice, and investigate if we should have dropped the bombs on Hiroshima, or if Pol Pot should have engaged in his actions.

Meanwhile, in the event you ever wake up to a home investigation, the cops cannot hesitate because they are obviously corrupt. So we'll have to make sure to assess the situation and determine if the people who broke into your home are a legitimate threat, or if the negotiator can sympathetically talk them down. This will obviously delay things in a stress-filled environment, and it might cause the potential hostage-takers to be put further on edge, increasing the likelihood that you or your family could be harmed or killed. But there has to be proper protocol and then some... all to make sure things are ran in accordance with your opinions regarding human nature and how things are run. In the end, the right thing will prevail... And man Desp, you're an idiot.

I mean, really. You are.
Your idea of stress is, what? Your latest play won't work and you'll have to live on ramen for a week? Been there, done that, got the thrift-store t-shirt.
Or wait, if things get to rough, you can have your mom and dad bail you out with 200 bucks a month like they did when you were in college.

So basing your lengthy training in the field whatever half-baked degree you learned in college, to that of pilots trained to fly complicated machinery in any number of hazardous situations, in or out of a combat situation..... Well, that leads me to nominally give you jack and shit when it comes to your technical expertise on situations you haven't the faintest clue about.

Who knows. Maybe in the far-flung future, the military can be run by your pie-in-the-sky vision, or eliminated entirely.
Maybe I'll get an actual floating hoverboard, and Marilyn Monroe's clone will serve me fat-free, life-enhancing, totally-good-for-you Daiquiris as I lounge in my agrarian utopia commune where no one works, everyone is happy, and disease, poverty and other things are something they show at the historical holo-museum.

[dexeron]

I think some of what Manning revealed was worth punishing him over. Anything that put people directly at risk, he had no right to reveal.

But Phant, you're telling me that none of that other stuff is worth knowing? Things like widespread corruption: that's not putting anyone at risk, and yes, we damn well do have a right to know that shit.

And you're kind of missing the point. It's not that those eight people were killed. It was a mistake. As you say: "collateral damage." Fine. We understand that it happens sometimes.

What we expect is that the military then has the balls to say: "Oh. Shit. Sorry." And ADMIT IT. And tell the fucking families what happened. And maybe discipline the fuckups who fucked up. Not ignore it and pretend it didn't happen. That's why some of these dudes are so quick to defend Manning in the first place. Not because they think the military can't have secrets, but because the military is being so stupid about what it is keeping secret.

[Phantomgrift]

If you're shocked by "widespread corruption", than you failed American and International History, and you have been living under a idealistic rock somewhere near Pleasantville.

And no Dex, it's not a mistake.
The reporters were interviewing terrorist forces. We call that, wrong place, wrong time.

You again prove you don't know anything about the military or how it works.
This is not the case where a drunken Army soldier went of his own accord to a nearby village and shot up a bunch of innocent civilians. In that case, the military did admit there was a mistake, the soldier in question is currently undergoing a numerous round of court-martials. The families were apologized to. Because a single soldier did something completely outside the scope of his job parameters.

Those helicopter pilots? The building they are shooting at housed known insurgents. When a news van pulls up alongside it and starts aiming something at your helicopter, that is not a "Oh gee, these must be news reporters that I had no knowledge of were out here!" moment.

That is a "I am shooting at known terrorist dirtbags... Whoops, heres a vehicle pulling up next to this building that housed known terrorist targets and Holy Fuck, they are aiming something at my helicopter. I am going to shoot them now."

You do not understand the situational mindset of a event like this, and you never will.

Even your argument is retarded. "because the military is being stupid about what it is keeping secret!"

Really? That's your judgement call to make? You've a degree in Intelligence and have spent the last forty years of your life dictating what gets qualified in accordance to specific classification levels? You write up the training manuals and regulations I have to annually review?

I must have missed that part.
As a matter of fact, it seems more like you are simply a basic civilian type that, (under significant influence by biased or general news sources), has taken umbrage at an affront to your opinionated sensibilities based on how you think certain things should be.

You'd be lying if you said otherwise.
Personally, I like it better when none of you have the faintest clue what goes on. If nothing else, the ratings for reality TV shows would go up.
Heh, granted, this desire to be "in the know" is what ultimately drives conspiracy theorists. They cherry-pick their favorite flavor of "truth" because they can safely rest in the knowledge that THEY and maybe a few others, really KNOW what's going on.

See, the military has had the balls to admit when stuff was wrong. Mai Lay is one.
Heh, when we accidentally bombed an embassy about ten years ago, that was another.

Murky worlds of terrorist operations involving a legitimate target where news crews weren't supposed to be anywhere near?
That's like saying you want the police to apologize because they responded to a bank robbery, and in the middle of the firefight, some random bystander guy in a ski mask decided to run towards the door because he woke up that morning and felt like running around with a ski-mask on was the dopest idea ever.

[Despanan]

[Despanan]

[Phantomgrift]

Yeah, that's nice.

See, as part of being in the Intel field, I like to collaborate my information from multiple sources that can be verified.
While I'm not dismissing the cases of accidental fires... Case in point, wherein a French aircraft accidentally fired on a passenger train some many years ago... I will definitely argue against the numbers put out by Middle Eastern authorities regarding "civilian" casualties. Mostly because after studying the doctrine, the sociology, the mannerisms and the culture of the Middle East, the Terrorists I babysat, and how they operate.... Tied together with the legitimate information I have at my disposal.

Well, it's very common and not altogether surprising to watch a operation that ends in the death of three terrorist and one unconfirmed, blossoming like a fish story before it finally shows up in the media as a bloodbath that killed an entire wedding party, a nearby funeral procession, one village, and three herds of goats.

I mean, this is a land where many places still consider TV to be a mystical and amazing technology. You'll forgive me if I don't automatically vouch for the accuracy of their forensic reporting.

Also, as much as you love to finger-wave and decry the evils of 'Murica, I like how little attention the news gives to Green On Blue violence.
As in we establish rapport with the people who have signed up to defend their own countrymen in places like Afghanistan, only to turn around and try to gun down as many Americans as he can months or years later because, "Allah Akbar, death to the west" and all that jazz.

"Suppress justice"
Desp, you have a mighty odd version of the word justice.

To quote the classic game: "War... War never changes."

You ask why we need a government if it does things like this? Why do we need a military? Why do we need to be secure?
Do we DESERVE to be secure?

Congrats. Welcome to your next step in my cynical dismissal of humanity altogether, and my life-long pipe dream of global reset via nuclear options.

Humanity sucks.
Most of humanity are little more than vapid sheep, secure and comfortable in their own little circle with their sheep buddies. Shopping, watching shitty tv, drinking, and screaming at people online. Some of us try to watch over those sheep. Some get burned out.
Some want to wipe out the sheep because they prefer the kind of their own, slightly different sheep. And some of us just want to make the worlds largest ball of roasted gyro kebab.

[dexeron]

In other words, fingers in ears, scream "Lalalalalalalala" and punish anyone who has the gall to do otherwise. Got it.

[Despanan]

[Phantomgrift]

I'm amused. I comment about the tendency of the Middle Eastern culture to over-exaggerate, and the difficulty in verifying some of those claims; and Dex turns that into "fingers in ears". Cute Dex.

Desp, you apparently just glossed over that part and moved on to saying your not cynical.
I am cynical. I am tired of humanity.

And sure Agent. I'm sure you couldn't get me fired.
You don't affect my job performance, I'm happily married, and DADT has been repealed, so you can't pretend to be a secret online tryst, gay or otherwise.....