I am officially no longer proud to be an American

[Despanan]

I think I'd feel this way even if I was Young Republican Despanan circa 2001.

[Agent]

you were never supposed to be, just be proud of people instead

[Agent]

you were pretty much a nazi until just now, is what I'm saying

[Despanan]

At some point this country had at least a little bit of dignity.

Not anymore.

[Agent]

a country is only the sum of the actions of its people, and americans have never treated each other with dignity

[dexeron]

We never fully lived up to our ideals, we were just better at brushing the ugliness under the carpet.

That's not the same thing as saying that our ideals are worthless though. People were willing to literally die to try to make us be just a little closer to fulfilling them.

Still, it's silly to be "proud" of being American, or from any country. Pride is for something you've accomplished, not an accident of birth. "Pride" in a country is dumb, and leads to mindless nationalistic jingoism ("America, love it or leave it" instead of actually saying "Do we really live up to these ideals, and if not, what can we do better?") but loyalty to ideals and principles is worthwhile, as is perhaps some pride when we manage to bend the moral arc of our nation closer to justice.

Remember, the framers never said "This will build a perfect union." They said it was to build a "more perfect union."

In other words, don't get a big head about how America is the greatest country ever - but at the same time don't fall into the opposite extreme of letting perfect be the enemy of good. Recognize what we do well, and what we don't do well, and us that knowledge to help make things even better so that when we hand things off to the next generation, they'll be in an even better position to continue to make a just world.

[Despanan]

The problem is we do so much more poorly than I would think is even baseline. Like our best should be a "A" but it barely clears a C+ and at the moment we just dropped from a "D" to an "F".

[Samurai]

Last night I happened across a retweet from a journalist (not a great journalist based on his recent work, but a journalist none the less) written by someone saying Obama had been a long-term MKUltra sleeper. While that's nonsense, it does shows what some people think the USA might be capable of. For the rest of us, there's MKUltra itself, of course. (And yes, I'm well aware the British were doing similar things at the time.)

[Despanan]

MKULtra, the Tuskegee Experiment, The Phoenix Program, Operation Condor, Operation Gladio, Operation Paperclip, not to mention the genocide of the Native Americans, Chattel Slavery, The War on Drugs/Private Prison System, Guantanamo Bay, Japanese Internment...The list goes on.

Like I know all that dark shit isn't all of who we are as a nation, but these days the darkness seems to be overpowering the good we do, particularly when we've just elected a vapid reality show thug to the highest office in the land.

I dunno, maybe America has always been more P.T. Barnum than George Washington, we just keep telling ourselves a story that we're more till we believe the hype.

[Rip]

I dunno; I see this as an opportunity to feel even MORE arrogant and prideful in myself! :D