So, I'm a Buddhist now.

[Kalelothran]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZR58d77a4A

Despanan, Dex, Rip and then Out of nowhere Agent.

[dexeron]

Wait, am I supposed to be Walter or Donny? Or am I the old lady keeping score on lane 27?

[Kalelothran]

Walter Definitely Walter w/o a Doubt.

[dexeron]

That's a relief. I was worried I wouldn't survive 'til the end of the film.

[Agent]

I take issue with all of this.

[Rip]

sweet, I haven't had a beeper since high school!

[Despanan]

[Despanan]

Dex! (And I suppose Rip and Agent)

So, a lot of the problems in our communication has been due to my use of spiritual terms to explain what I've been getting at about enlightenment, the Buddha Nature, etc.

Well I think this might put what I'm talking about in more concrete terms: http://youtu.be/vqCOss4hqnE

[dexeron]

Argh. That video does the exact same thing I was getting frustrated with about your writing. It's a whole bunch of word-salad being used to describe something very mundane, but this time with the appropriation of "scientific" terminology like "neuroscience" to try to add a veneer of legitimacy.

We don't have a literal "lower and higher" consciousness (though these terms are useful as a metaphor) any more than we actually have a "thinking brain" and a "lizard brain" (though, again, these can be useful metaphors.) We just have brains, and many of us fall into habits (often through being trained to do so) of putting our own needs over those of others, and thinking of others only in relation to how their actions affect us. We can all also learn and be taught another way: to see the actions of others as being the products of their own circumstances and feelings, and the value the needs of others.

I'm so torn on this whole thing. Part of me is all: "IT IS JUST BRAINS why do we need to keep slapping ridiculous metaphysical metaphors on top of it? Why do we need to keep adding decorative drapes to stained glass windows?"

But the other part of me is: "Language is good, metaphors are useful, poetic language can be more useful than pared down sterile language."

I think my big objection is that all this metaphysical language becomes a very easy way for people to start forgetting that these are just metaphors, and no there is no actual higher supernatural consciousness state. It's the same thing that vaguely irks me (but only vaguely) about your Buddhism - sure, you say you don't actually believe in the supernatural, but your language really implies otherwise, and you can't tell me that there aren't people in your own movement who don't believe that there is, indeed, a very real and literal supernatural component to all of it. And that's where I start looking at it all askance, because then it's just another cult we're describing.

[Despanan]

Well again a cult isn't defined by supernatural beliefs, it's defined by the fact that it abuses it's members and gets them to serve the organization at the expense of themselves. That's really what sets them apart from religions. Isolating, controlling, authoritarian behavior.

Now you are right and SGI actually works to overcome that. We actually recently changed our daily prayers because too many people were getting confused because we had a prayer that expressed appreciation for, and hoped to contribute to what's called "" which translates into "Buddhist Gods" or "Heavenly Deities" The prayer literally stated that it was using the term to refer to physical things in our environment (friends, family, fellow Soka Gakkai members, benevolent forces in society) but too many members were getting confused and thinking that chanting would bring supernatural aid and so we eliminated that section from our prayers.

Which is a little annoying to me, because I really liked that part, but again, you don't want to get people thinking the wrong thing.

However, I do want to stress that you need to strike a balance when you use these terms. If you speak in too heavily materialist and scientific terms it often sucks the romance and wonder out of your world - which then prompts negative emotional states.

I do think that there is a lower and higher self, but not in a natural/supernatural sense, but more or less in a psychological sense. Yes it's all just brains but brains are capable of alot of things and so with my Buddhist practice I'm constantly working to train my brain in such a way that it maximizes happiness, competency, and compassion while making me less afraid of death and things which I cannot control.

That's kind of why the practice is more important than the thought and one of the things that separates buddhist conceptions of faith from Christian conceptions.

What's important in Christianity to to accept the existence and mercy of Jesus. You decide one day to believe in him and "Bam!" you're saved. It's intellectual faith.

Whereas with what I'm doing, it's about the practice. It would be as if it was more important to pray to Jesus than to believe in Jesus.

If that makes sense. The point is the physical act, not the thought, is what changes your life and produces positive results.