Edward Snowden was a BOB

[Agent]

you know if the narodnaya volya never resorted to terrorism we wouldnt have these problems there would have been no soviet revolution and no soviet union and no cold war for the middle east to get caught in the middle of

[dexeron]

[Phantomgrift]

Desp, your post just leads me to wander what would happen if you encounter those types who just want to watch the world burn.
Obviously, a new and unstable regime of any sorts is going to be met by individuals and groups who will see it as a chance for true anarchy, a lawless state of doing whatever they can to whomever they can. And while some people operate autonomously well, there is a reason during the Westward expansion that those types picked up and moved to the outskirts of society in the first place. Most people prefer the common association with a centralized body of individuals telling them what to do in the name of being "civilized".

Per the Middle East? Yes, their sentiments would stand even if we hadn't had military bases over there.
The Middle East is a long and complex history tying in deeply with the engrained aspect of Sharia law and how the Islamic and Muslim teachings mesh into their everyday social fabric.

I highly recommend two books:
"From Beirut To Jerusalem" and "What Went Wrong: A Short History Of The Middle East"

In as much of a summary as I can for a setting like this:
The Middle East was historically a pinnacle of civilization. Early history shows their scholars, teachings and studies were advanced compared to the rest of the world. IE. They contributions to astronomy, mathematics, etc. The downside to this was a aspect of their social nature, which was very cloistered. While their people may end up visiting other countries, to return and tell their families about what they'd seen, they were not much for explorers and spreading the word to their people. Nor was this helped by many that clung to a nomadic or tribal culture. To most, places like Baghdad were all that mattered, and anything to the far north were unenlightened heathen barbarians. Major Armies of the time directly reflect this, as they were one of the few to take note of foreign innovation a stutter-step behind the rest of the world.

For a while, the Middle East was the height of civilization. Then things begin to happen like the Italian Renaissance or the Industrial Revolution, and the viewpoint was still... Barbarians to the North.

Compound this by a few hundred years, and the Middle East suddenly find themselves no longer at the forefront of society and culture, and wondering how the rest of the world jumped so much further ahead.

Archeological, sociological and anthropological studies have highlighted that there is a underlying resentment in specific generations of people raised in the Middle East. Again, nor does it help when you get into how much their religious views permeate every single facet of their daily lives... On a level that most in the West are completely unaware or very misinformed on.

Numerous factors lead up to the attacks on 9/11 that were driven long before America had a footprint in the Middle East.

Keep in mind that numerous attacks have been carried out in the name of Islamic extremism for decades... But the fundamental focus at the time in the west was: "What is Russia going to do next, and when are we all going to duck, cover, and kiss our nuclear-assess goodbye."

Trying to claim that Western influence and American military forces are the reasons we were attacked initially, is like saying that Concrete as a paving material is evil because Wal-Mart historically uses concrete in construction. The sheer doctrine of Koranic law is, well, alarming. Many modern Muslims are content, much like modern Christians, to get along with the world around them. But they are outweighed by the sheer number who hold that the old ways are the best, and anything less is heresy. It would be as though the Amish Mennonite community decided that everyone in the world must be Amish, and set upon the rest of the United States with dynamite-filled horse-drawn wagons of destruction.

[dexeron]

[Phantomgrift]

My "watch the world burn" comment was directed towards Desp and his fictional ideal society.

And to your last line.
That's not what I said.
I even directly stated that there was entirely to much to cover in such a limited aspect as this forum, but it forms a primary base for where many of the problems arose. It was direct counter to Desp's "They do it because of America". Which, in and of itself is a gross oversimplification. And much akin to what you are doing. Where in attacking my point, your final point is to claim that I am "oversimplifying" to the point it's incorrect. Which is short-sighted misdirection on your part as I specifically outlined there was more to it than could be adequately covered in what moments I have online.

And trying to dismiss a book strictly by title without any indicator that you remotely bothered to even find out what the book was about? And you wish to call me "incorrect"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Went_Wrong%3F

Written by this man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lewis

It's okay Dex, one day, you will discover that even online, you're not quite as important or intelligent as you believe yourself to be.

[dexeron]

[Phantomgrift]

Attacks have been carried out in the name of Islamic extremism based to the very nature of dividing differences between Sunni, Shia and Kurd, just to name a handful.

If anything, western influence only gave them a enemy they could all agreeably hate with the creation of Israel.
A lot of what they do boils down to "Hey, these guys don't believe the same way we do, lets kill them for being heathen bastards."
Keep in mind that "Lawrence Of Arabia" isn't just a overly-long movie no one remembers. It's based on a guy who did amazing wonders in trying to pull the Middle East together, despite being, you know, a western foreigner.

Again Dex, I'm not going to oversimplify such a vast and complex subject into something as ambiguously misleading as "They attack us because of the West!". For your sake, I would hope you would see the inherent stupidity in attempting to do the same.

[dexeron]

[Phantomgrift]

In that line of thinking, then you can blame most of the known problems with the Middle East and Africa on British colonialism.

And bear in mind, Desp wasn't indicating colonialism. Desp was giving the impression that it was specifically the presence of U.S. military forces in the Middle East that caused them to attack us. Which is, quite frankly, a completely irrational way of thinking.

[Despanan]